Believe in yourself and you can do amazing things!

I could also learn how to wire a house on my own. Regardless, most people will want to see a piece of paper before they’ll trust me to wire theirs. Why would running their business be any different?

A degree simply verifies that the holder has a certain amount of knowledge in a certain field. When starting out in a competitive job market, that is a valuable asset.

Assuming marketability is a factor, there are two conclusions to be drawn here:

1. Never do a grad degree that doesn’t offer you new skills. Few are arguing that a Bachelor’s degree is a bad idea … but a grad degree that just offers more of the same is a waste of time and money. If you have a BA in History, an MA in History won’t open many new doors.

2. Be sure it’s a rigourous degree from a GOOD school. Even the Brazen Careerist author implies that an MBA or a law degree from a top school is a good investment, while the same degree from a “shitty” school is not. There is a vast market for lots of degrees, it’s just that supply often exceeds demand. When this happens, expect the grad from McGill or Toronto to get hired before the grad from Nipissing or Royal Roads.

Statistics may treat all “degrees” as equal, but the job market does not. We should be wary of stats that lead to conclusions that degrees are worth little. Anecdotal evidence is quite contrary; top degrees are worth as much as ever.

Masters, shmasters, it is all a joke. This is a severe recession, no one is hiring. College degree won’t get you jack–it is a racket to get money from imbeciles who believe in education. GO TO THE LIBRARY AND READ A BOOK. That is education. Not listen to some garbage for 45K/yearly tuition by some PhD loser talking about liberal jibber jabber.

Also, in this horrible recession (depression), they are all outsourcing jobs to the mexicans, chinese, and indians because they work really hard and cheaply. That is the american way. love it or leave it or go to grad school to become some prof’s boy/girl.

Going to college for financial reasons is not the reason to go… if you aren’t motivated out of a passion for your education fueled by your desire to learn, you’re not going to learn as much, you’re not going to be as good on the job… I don’t know it’s what I really believe.

I think it’s sad when people choose degrees for money… but unfortunately so many do…

As for starting salaries, I can say that the average starting salary for a computer science undergrad is about $51,000/year. With a phd, that jumps to around $90,000/year; those going into academia pull this number down as industry salaries tend to be at least $120,000 for new phd grads (I’m basing this on what my friends have made, so this is probably a little high since I’m at a top school). Unless you’re able to rise quickly in the ranks, a phd, at least in computer science, will quickly pay for itself (plus, you’ll be getting paid around $24,000/year + tuition and fees while doing the phd).

Anyhow, I think the discussion about whether grad school, or even college, is always a plus is good to have. It’s generally assumed that education is always going to help someone. That’s not actually the case, and it’s good to see people talking about it!

So in many cases, I think “Masters” degrees are simply turning into proof that you did well enough at the Undergrad level to get in – which is a much more elegant way to communicate it than (say) putting your marks on your resume, which themselves are so subjective across schools and disciplines.

Andy, you’re right about the vague question, but it did bring you here to take part in the discussion, didn’t it ? I like your idea if using someone’s personal utility to measure value. However, I also have to offer a retort to your observations around MBAs versus PhD. (Of course, we are both biased here since I have an MBA and I see you are a PhD candidate in math/science/engineering… ) It is a much more complex equation when you account for opportunity cost, time value of money in relation to peak earning years, and personal utility/fulfillment. Here are just a few initial thoughts that come to mind:

Consider the time it takes to get a PhD in any subject: It takes you 4-5 years during your peak earning years, so you not only have an opportunity cost in terms of lost wages, you also have lost investment income, and lost opportunities for career advancement at a high growth point in your career (the last point being especially true in science/engineering). It’s true that once you’re done you may be set as a professor, but you may have also limited your career options if you choose not to go into academia.

An MBA, by comparison is only 1-2 years, but is usually more expensive. Now while it might be the more costly choice in terms of immediate cash outlay, it usually does – as you mention – result in an immediate salary bump, as well as many opportunities for employment. It also injects you back into the workforce at an age (and salary) that would allow you to maximize your peak earning years. Of course you may make some lifestyle sacrifices, so in terms of personal utility and fulfillment you may lose out a bit.

The humanities grad degree is an interesting animal. Under the traditional pure ROI that I originally proposed, it completely loses out. But, what if you think of the difference between pre-grad school salaries of a humanities student versus a math/science/engineering student? Clearly the opportunity cost of a humanities degree is lower. Also, given the potential for employment post-PhD, the humanities people cannot possibly be in it for the money (only half kidding ). It seems to me like a career choice that is more rooted in personal fulfillment, thus potentially scoring higher in terms of utility. In that case, does it really matter if you forgo a salary for 4-5 years and barely breakeven on the degree? I would say probably not.

For grad schools to give you ROI, you have to be the one to go in with an attitude to learn as much as you can, exploit the resources such as professors, network, etc etc. It all depends on how you leverage your education to bring into the real world.